Payroll item Other 1 (set up to handle overtime rate) is reducing Long Service Leave balance

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  • Updated 4 years ago
  • (Edited)
Hi All, we are using Reckon Accounts Premier Edition 2015. A payroll item 'Other 1' has been set up to handle staff overtime hours which are paid at a different $ rate. The system is deducting hours from Long Service Leave balances (Hours used this year) so now it appears as if the staff member has used up some of their LSL entitlements when they haven't taken any yet. Can you help?!!
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Twine

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Posted 4 years ago

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Kim Chapman - COS Business Solutions, Accredited Partner

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Hi Twine

This has come about due to someone renaming the Other 1 default payroll item incorrectly to be an overtime rate.  The only way to fix this is to make the (Other 1 default item) or overtime rate inactive and create a new overtime Payroll item setup correctly as just what it is as an overtime rate you will notice that this new Overtime item you setup automatically calculates ie. 1.5 times the base rate, you existing overtime item is a set amount based on the cardfile amount.  You will then have to manually calculate the LSL hours to get the correct figures to adjust the real Other 1 quantity to what it should be.

Kind Regards

Kim Chapman

Accredited Consultant.

 

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Alex Tan, Alum

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Hi Twine,

Just to mention why you have to make the item inactive is that you have already used it in a payslip and this is why you cant delete the payroll item.

The reason behind this is that someone may have created an overtime item that links to the LSL tab in your leave entitlements area so when you make a new overtime payroll item make sure that it does not link to the LSL tab again.

-Alex
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John Graetz

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Hi Twine.  My answer is a little different to the one provided by Kim but tends to follow a similar theme.  Reckon Accounts automatically comes with a number of "default" payroll codes.  One of those is "Other 1" which you have used for Overtime.

If you go to Edit (top left of screen)> Preferences> Payroll & employees> Company Preferences (tab) you will probably find that by default, Reckon may have classified the Payroll Item "Other 1" as an LSL leave item, hence the reason that you are having the problems that you are experiencing.  Anybody else who uses that default "Other 1" payroll item will end up with exactly the same problem if they have not changed the Company Preferences payroll item for LSL leave.

The solutions proposed by both Twine and Alex, of making the current item inactive and creating a new item, set up correctly, and not being selected in the Company preferences as a leave item, will work.

  John L G
(Edited)
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Kim Chapman - COS Business Solutions, Accredited Partner

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John

There is nothing wrong with the item or the setup of Reckon, it works perfectly when you start using the Other 1 item as RDO or LSL, if everything has been setup correctly.  It is only an issue when the Other 1 (system item) is renamed, ie. when someone renames it rather than creating, generally happens when a user does not know how to setup a Payroll Item. 

Regards

Kim Chapman

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Andrew

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I'm slightly confused. So why doesn't Reckon not just call 'Other 1' what is really is..... LSL?
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Kim Chapman - COS Business Solutions, Accredited Partner

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Andrew

It is because not all businesses deal with LSL or RDO's, they may have others that they use, some use these other fields for TOIL (can't think of any others, its too late in the day).  By leaving this as other it allows the individual business a bit of flexibility. 

There is often more than one way to tackle a task.

Regards

Kim Chapman

 

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Andrew

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While its true there is more than one way to slice and dice things, the feeling I got from this thread was that "Other 1" should be used/rename for LSL as this is the default way people do things.

Technical EVERY business in Australia who deals with permanent employees, has to manage LSL. Now if the employee or business hangs around long enough to be entitled to LSL is a different question. 

So shouldn't LSL be built into the product, just like it does for sick leave and holiday leave from the get go?

But this is more of a question to Reckon.
(Edited)
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Rav, Community Manager

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Can certainly understand where you're coming from with that Andrew.

I've asked about it and this particular aspect is part of the design environment of the program. The 'Other 1' and 'Other 2' leave types can be customised to what is required by the individual business.

Implementing an additional leave type dedicated to LSL isn't something on the development roadmap at this stage.

Cheers
Rav
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Andrew

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No worries Rav, thanks for the reply. Little surprised that LSL isn't something on the development roadmap, as above it is a LEGAL requirement of payroll in this country for permanent employees.

I would have thought it was as simple as hard coding Other 1 to be LSL and setup the required accounts etc.

I do know you guys have this guide kicking around (pretty old as its refs quickbooks, but still current) that shows how to setup Other 1 for LSL.

http://library.reckon.com.au/library/...
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John Graetz

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Thanks for your input too Rav.  I guess that the main issue here is that the payroll items Other 1 and Other 2 appear to be also linked to the Other 1 and Other 2 leave types, but nobody can see that in the payroll items because it is part of the initial default of those items.  If one decides to customise by creating a new payroll item, one then has the ability to specify it is a leave type.  But, because there doesn't seem to be any readily available information that I am aware of that says that the payroll items Other 1 and Other 2 are really leave types, nobody is aware of this until somebody like Twine strikes a problem and doesn't know why it is happening.  From what I can see, the Help section is totally silent on what is behind these payroll items.
John L G
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Rav, Community Manager

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New users coming in to an already established company file may run into confusion around certain concepts and being new to this myself I can certainly see what you mean John.

I've had a chat about it this morning and have had several considerations put forward. Chiefly, someone using the product, especially payroll items, employee records, and dealing with preferences, would have seen "Other 1" in relation to holiday items. For these users, when they set up a new payroll item and are shown "Other 1" in proximity to other holiday items the conclusion would be fairly straightforward of their relation.

On the flip side, there is the issue knowledge and understanding what you are trying to achieve with this tool. On this aspect, there is an element of onus on the user however of course we aim to complement this by having as many support avenues and content available including in-product help, KB articles, direct phone support and of course this Community itself.

Cheers
Rav
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John Graetz

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Rav.  One of the big problems is that once some payroll items have been set up, there is no longer an ability to determine just how they have been set.  When one looks at the payroll item list, it is devoid of very important information.  When one attempts to edit some of the items, it is impossible to know just how they have been set up until a problem arises, because some of the options which have been ticked are just not visibile.  This means that one person can set up an item in a particular way, but the next person doing the job has absolutely no idea as to what has been done.  This is a real failing with Reckon.  Hence the reason that people have problems and have no idea as to why those problems occur.  In many cases, one is left with no other alternative than to mark the item as inactive and then start a new item.  Then the merry-go-round starts again with the next person, because there is no documentary evidence available as to how some items were set up.
Apart from that, it seems that when one clicks on "Reckon Account help" it is totally devoid of information relating to the types of issues which have been discussed in this post.  One should not have to go to knowledge bases to try and find out this information. It should be in the help section where it belongs.  Again, this shows a lack of consideration for the users of the Reckon products.  
John L G.
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Rav, Community Manager

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John,

You can always go back and view the configuration of the item.
  
What this will not tell you however is the original intention of the person who set it up.

If an item is set up correctly and does not produce the correct response, then the question becomes whether the item is suitable for the objective being sought as that is a user decision.

I appreciate what you're saying in regard support. From what I understand the "Reckon Accounts Help" area provides a how-to-use-xyzfeature of the program. Further from there, it comes down to the user to take the program and apply it to their individual circumstances.

If a deeper level of support is required, we always encourage our users to make use of our support channels including classroom training, webinars, professional partners, and of course the Community.

Cheers
Rav
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John Graetz

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Rav.  I don't believe that it is possible in every case to go and view the configuration of an item, hence the reason that people end up with weird things like Twine experienced.  Either that  or I am seriously missing something.  I provide you with the following example:
1. I commence a new payroll item
2. I designate it as a Payroll Type of "Wage" and then I hit the "next" button
3. I then select say "Hourly Wages" and again hit the "next" button
4. I am then presented with a page which is again titled "Wages" which again gives me a range of options (e.g. Regular pay, overtime pay, sick pay, holiday pay,  plus any other customised leave types which have been set up..  I can select any one of these options but once I finish the set up I cannot see a way in which to ever view this information again, hence the reason that people are having strange things happen, because nobody can apparently see what option has been selected.
If I look at the options for customising the display for the payroll items list, there is no option to display what has been selected for the types which can be selected above.  Furthermore, if you try and edit the payroll item, the same problem arises, in that this part of the setup does not ever seem to able to be viewed again.
Please tell me therefore what I am missing and where I need to go to view this part of the setup once it has been completed.
John L G
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Rav, Community Manager

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Hi John,
I've just run a test using the process you've outlined above and created a payroll item.

Once you're in the Payroll Item list, you are presented with basic information about the items. This can then be further customised by clicking the "Payroll Item" button at the bottom left and clicking "Customise Columns"

A further option is, once the payroll item is set up, double click on the item which will step through each section.

An alternative option is to export the payroll items list as an IIF file which will also give you a breakdown of the setup for ALL payroll items in a spreadsheet view.

Cheers
Rav
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John Graetz

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Rav. I am no further advanced with your first two options.  In the first one, if I go to Customise on the Payroll Item list, I already have "Type" selected but there is no option to select the Type of Type.  So what should I be selecting to see what type of wage item has been set up e.g.  Regular pay, overtime pay, sick pay, holiday pay,  plus any other customised leave types which have been set up,  There is nothing further available.  Please be specific as to what I should now be selecting under customise.
And I continue.  When double clicking on the payroll item, I am still no better off.  On the payroll item list I can see "Type", but when I double click on the payroll item all that I can see if the payroll item name and the next screen is the Expense Account to which it is allocated. There just is not any other useful information here. So is there another setting somewhere which I must select in order to see ALL of the background setup information?
Surely you are not telling me that the only way to see ALL of this setup background information is to have to export the items list as an IIF file - are you?  That would be just plain crazy and extremely unhelpful to have to do that whenever a query arose  I await your response.  John L G.
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Rav, Community Manager

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Got it John, I was using payroll items where there was a bigger distinction between the items themselves as we had named the items reflecting their type eg. sick leave, overtime etc.

But when I checked ordinary time earnings against holiday yes I observed there was no clear distinction between the two in the list, or setup screens.

The granular details of an individual item can be clearly seen using the IIF export method.

Thanks
Rav
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John Graetz

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Thanks Rav - yes, you can see the info that way.  But that is a pretty pathetic solution if that is the only way.  Why does anybody have to go through such a long winded approach when two far more readily available sources could be made available?  
Will Reckon either allow such info to be seen when trying to edit these items, or perhaps a safer way would be to have an extra column available on the payroll item list?  This would make life so much more easier and provide a quick means to see everything this is part of the setup.  If one is experienced in setting up new payroll items, they are aware of the different options that are available, but for a new operator, there is nothing to point them in the right direction. The logical thing is to make life easy for the operator, rather start telling people to export iif files and try and interpret them.  John L G
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Rav, Community Manager

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Fully appreciate what you've raised John.

One thing I don't understand is, when would a user not be able to identify the type of payroll item from the payroll item list?
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John Graetz

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Rav.  If you look at this issue that Twine first raised, there is your answer.  It would seem that somebody could have allocated the wrong leave type to a payroll item, in relation to its supposed use, but there is no way that she could see what the problem was.  Her only perceived option was to make the item inactive and create a new item.  That is a fix, but we can only speculate on what might have gone wrong, rather that emphatically knowing what went wrong.  Personally, I have have on more than one occasion wanted to go and have a look at the setup, but couldn't readily do so.  I only found out today that I could see this info by exporting the data by means of an iif file.  John L G
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Rav, Community Manager

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Yes I can understand that John.

In regard to such issues, I think there is an element of ownership the user must take on board, however obviously along the way honest mistakes will be made also. As in this unique case there are solutions available however unfriendly they may be, along with support such the Community right here or phone support.

The next logical step is to evolve these "unfriendly" solutions which is where we come in. In an ideal world it would be great to have every aspect covered however this is not always possible. 

There isn't much I can do about this on an immediate level however I can raise this on our Ideas list for future consideration.

Cheers
Rav
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John Graetz

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Thanks Rav - that would be good.  John L G
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Andrew

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So its a 'user' issue then Rav, that we can't see all the details about the item created? Ummm ok...
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John Graetz

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Ah yes Andrew.  If it wasn't for the trees, we would be able to see the wood, but in this case, I reckon it is a case of not being able to see the detail because of Reckon :)  John L G
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John Graetz

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Spot on Kim.  John L G
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Twine

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Thanks so much, everyone! I will check the setup and make the necessary adjustments. Cheers

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