Share transactions not showing in shares available for sale in Personal Plus

I have a number of Investment accounts, each one has a portfolio of shares in it. Some have the same shares in each investment account.

I have noticed that when I recently came to enter shares sales for a security that some shares previously bought for one of the investment accounts that show in the holding total summary are not recorded in the available lots of shares for sale. As a consequence the available for sale shares to allocate for a sale shows as nil whereas the investing account summary of the shares has the correct total of shares recorded. As a consequence I cannot record the profit on sale and this does not appear in the capital gains report to use for tax purposes.

When I go into another investment account that also holds shares in the same security the available shares for sale agrees with the investment total for that account. As a result the shares sold can be allocated and these appear in the Capital Gains report.

This is the first time I have experienced this problem. Has anyone had the same experience as this gives a problem for CGT purposes ?

Comments

  • David M
    David M Member Posts: 79

    I have recently found a similar problem. My solution has been as follows - if anyone has a better one, I will change.

    I have fixed the CGT aspect, by "buying" additional shares at the correct original cost. If you look back in the history of purchases and current holdings, you can find which shares have "disappeared" and their cost. You can then sell the shares and apply them against cost -note the purchase date has to be original to get CGT correct.

    You will then be left with extra shares sitting in total investments without any history. If you go and sell those shares at $.0001 i.e. for a nominal total value, without allocating to a particular parcel, [because there isn't one to allocate to] your investment totals are now clear, and you only have a 1 cent challenge in your cash reconciliation.

    Hope that helps

  • Brian
    Brian Member Posts: 19 ✭✭

    David thanks for your reply.

    There is a basic principal of bookkeeping that the system is failing here, that is that for every debit there has to be a credit for the system to balance in all transactions. For me the system has worked with one portfolio account but not the other. Why is this ? Therefore are there other problems in the system? So where is the system putting the shares and the cost of the shares, when it is recording the sale in the bank account. It is not putting the cost against the shares when bought as explained below.

    I do however have concerns that this is a problem Reckon needs to fix in the software. We rely on the Reckon Capital Gains report to provide the basis of our ATO capital gains for tax purposes. It is a concern when we notice that the Reckon Capital Gains report has not picked up a transaction we know about. If we did not know about this transaction or simply relied on the Reckon report as a basis for our Tax return there is potentially a problem with understating tax payable to the ATO with a fine. How many Reckon users therefore have this problem?

    If the system is working properly it will be picking up the total number of shares bought and recording them in the portfolio holding at time of purchase so that the holding has details of all shares purchased with their cost price. On sale they can be picked up and the cost base used for capital gains/losses. However in my instance although the total number of shares in the portfolio were correct the purchase number and quantity of the shares were not picked up and shown in the register of shares available for sale. The system simply recorded "There are not enough open shares to cover your request". However it is still possible to record the sale, As consequence the sale is allowed to go through.

    The result of the above was that the sale price comes off the cost price of the shares even though the number of shares that were bought were not recorded in the number of shares bought. As a result the cost value of value of the shares even though they are shown in the list of transactions are not included in the shares available for sale. As a consequence for one of my portfolios I am showing shares owned but they have a minus cost value. The amount of the sale has been debited to the bank account the value of the shares sold has been credited against the cost of shares even though the cost and number of bought is not there.

    For another portfolio account exactly similar transaction were concluded but they are correctly recorded in the transaction history and in the shares available for sale, so there is no problem picking up these items when sold.

    As this appears to be a major glitch in the system a response from Reckon would be appreciated.

  • David M
    David M Member Posts: 79

    Hi Brian

    You are absolutely correct in what you say, and this is a problem with the system .

    Rav, over to you to respond.

  • Brian
    Brian Member Posts: 19 ✭✭

    Hi David,

    As you suggest I think this is one for Rav to look into.

    It doesn't make sense that for the same type of transactions in different portfolios can be accurately performed in one portfolio but not in another portfolio. Having "one legged entries" like this are concerning. Where is the other entry to balance things?

  • Rav
    Rav Administrator Posts: 12,789 Community Manager Community Manager

    Hi folks,

    I can't say I have a great deal of knowledge in this area so apologies if I come across a bit silly while I try to wrap my head around this. I will however reach out to some folks internally for further insight into this as well.

    I do have a few questions though just to gather a bit more info around this so hopefully you can help me out with the below -


    I have noticed that when I recently came to enter shares sales for a security that some shares previously bought for one of the investment accounts that show in the holding total summary are not recorded in the available lots of shares for sale.

    • Is this a new occurrence? More specifically, has this process worked differently before ie. as you expect it to at some prior point in time?


    • Is this specific to your current file? If you open the Sample File or create a new test/dummy file, does the same behaviour occur?


    • Which version of the Reckon Personal software are you using that this is occurring on?


    Also, while I'm going to link a help guide below, let me know if it doesn't address the behaviour in question.


    Thanks guys, looking forward to hearing from you.

  • David M
    David M Member Posts: 79

    My experience has been as follows.

    1 - This was the second time it has ever occurred, and both have been in the last five years. I am a thirty-year user of the software, and post at least one investment transaction per day over the year. However, I have not checked all my current investments to see if there are others that have not yet emerged, and will when I try and sell the last of those shares int at company.

    2 - Given the infrequency with which it occurs, trying to recreate it is a futile exercise, in my opinion.

    3 - I am using Personal Plus 2022.

    4 - My guess is that when a purchase or sale of investment transaction is processed it is 'corrupted' and not stored in the database in the proper fashion. When it is the first purchase of shares in the company, the user will automatically delete the transaction and reenter the data until it works. Where it is an additional purchase of shares in an existing investment company, or a partial sale of the shares being held, the problem will carry forward, as in my two cases, until the last shares are sold.

    5 - I have read the guide, and in my case the latest stock is Newcrest Mining, which I have owned since 1997, which according to my records, has never had a capital return. So, this note does not apply. I have had purchases and sales, transfers and dividends but no capital returns.

    6 - We await your further advice.

    David

  • Brian
    Brian Member Posts: 19 ✭✭

    Rav, my experience is as follows-

    1- For me I believe this is a new experience as it's the first time I have come across the problem.

    2-I have not tried to resolve the problem by opening a sample file or creating a new test as I am concerned that this may crate another problem I cannot control.

    3-I am using Reckon Personal Plus 2022 .

    The share involved is Woolworths, which is held in 2 different portfolio accounts. I have gone into the Investing area and downloaded a report for the Woolworths shares. This shows all transactions for Woolworths shares and the portfolio they are in. It also shows the corresponding account the entry has been posted to. The report shows-

    For one of my Portfolios where there is not a problem.

    1-When the sale is made and the shares can be allocated against lots in the portfolio the cost of the shares and the capital profit is clearly shown.

    2-Therefore in this portfolio the debit and credit entries balance.

    For the Portfolio where there is a problem and the shares cannot be allocated on sale.

    1-All shares purchases are recorded, so the shares are available for sale.

    2-If I change the date of the portfolio report to a date that includes the date of the share purchases but is before the date of the sale of those shares the report correctly records the Woolworths number of shares held and their cost. So the number of shares should therefore be in the "lots of" shares available to be picked up for sale.

    3- When I go back to the report of all Woolworths transactions and look at the sale transaction (that specified not enough shares for sale) this shows that there is no cost involved. As a result the full amount of the sale price is credited against the cost of the portfolio. The system has picked up the sale price and taken it off the cost of the existing portfolio but not picked up any share quantity. In short it recognises the cost value but not the number of shares, so has allocated all the sale against cost. Therefore no CGT report for this transaction. Currently in one portfolio therefore my Woolworths shares show a negative cost value but a small number of shares, which are not registering in the shares available for sale. This creates another CGT report problem when these shares are sold.

  • Brian
    Brian Member Posts: 19 ✭✭

    Hi Rav,

    Have you made any progress on this topic as it appears the double entry has not worked in this instance.

    I have adjusted my ATO return for the error on the cost not being recorded. However this gives me a problem in the 2022/23 Capital Gains report.

    When selling the remaining shares in Woolworths Capital gains for 2022/23 are incorrect, as the cost of the shares sold is negative due to the cost not being recorded on the previous sale.

  • Rav
    Rav Administrator Posts: 12,789 Community Manager Community Manager
    edited September 28

    Hi Brian

    As above, can you please test the same process in the sample file and/or a dummy test file and confirm whether the same behaviour is consistent there and advise.


    I have not tried to resolve the problem by opening a sample file or creating a new test as I am concerned that this may crate another problem I cannot control.

    Note, a separate test file or the sample file are completely separate to your current/existing file that you're using.

    Let me know how you get on.

    Thanks