Share transactions not showing in shares available for sale in Personal Plus

Brian_7091946

I have a number of Investment accounts, each one has a portfolio of shares in it. Some have the same shares in each investment account.

I have noticed that when I recently came to enter shares sales for a security that some shares previously bought for one of the investment accounts that show in the holding total summary are not recorded in the available lots of shares for sale. As a consequence the available for sale shares to allocate for a sale shows as nil whereas the investing account summary of the shares has the correct total of shares recorded. As a consequence I cannot record the profit on sale and this does not appear in the capital gains report to use for tax purposes.

When I go into another investment account that also holds shares in the same security the available shares for sale agrees with the investment total for that account. As a result the shares sold can be allocated and these appear in the Capital Gains report.

This is the first time I have experienced this problem. Has anyone had the same experience as this gives a problem for CGT purposes ?

Comments

David M

I have recently found a similar problem. My solution has been as follows - if anyone has a better one, I will change.

I have fixed the CGT aspect, by "buying" additional shares at the correct original cost. If you look back in the history of purchases and current holdings, you can find which shares have "disappeared" and their cost. You can then sell the shares and apply them against cost -note the purchase date has to be original to get CGT correct.

You will then be left with extra shares sitting in total investments without any history. If you go and sell those shares at $.0001 i.e. for a nominal total value, without allocating to a particular parcel, [because there isn't one to allocate to] your investment totals are now clear, and you only have a 1 cent challenge in your cash reconciliation.

Hope that helps

Brian_7091946

David thanks for your reply.

There is a basic principal of bookkeeping that the system is failing here, that is that for every debit there has to be a credit for the system to balance in all transactions. For me the system has worked with one portfolio account but not the other. Why is this ? Therefore are there other problems in the system? So where is the system putting the shares and the cost of the shares, when it is recording the sale in the bank account. It is not putting the cost against the shares when bought as explained below.

I do however have concerns that this is a problem Reckon needs to fix in the software. We rely on the Reckon Capital Gains report to provide the basis of our ATO capital gains for tax purposes. It is a concern when we notice that the Reckon Capital Gains report has not picked up a transaction we know about. If we did not know about this transaction or simply relied on the Reckon report as a basis for our Tax return there is potentially a problem with understating tax payable to the ATO with a fine. How many Reckon users therefore have this problem?

If the system is working properly it will be picking up the total number of shares bought and recording them in the portfolio holding at time of purchase so that the holding has details of all shares purchased with their cost price. On sale they can be picked up and the cost base used for capital gains/losses. However in my instance although the total number of shares in the portfolio were correct the purchase number and quantity of the shares were not picked up and shown in the register of shares available for sale. The system simply recorded "There are not enough open shares to cover your request". However it is still possible to record the sale, As consequence the sale is allowed to go through.

The result of the above was that the sale price comes off the cost price of the shares even though the number of shares that were bought were not recorded in the number of shares bought. As a result the cost value of value of the shares even though they are shown in the list of transactions are not included in the shares available for sale. As a consequence for one of my portfolios I am showing shares owned but they have a minus cost value. The amount of the sale has been debited to the bank account the value of the shares sold has been credited against the cost of shares even though the cost and number of bought is not there.

For another portfolio account exactly similar transaction were concluded but they are correctly recorded in the transaction history and in the shares available for sale, so there is no problem picking up these items when sold.

As this appears to be a major glitch in the system a response from Reckon would be appreciated.

David M

Hi Brian

You are absolutely correct in what you say, and this is a problem with the system .

Rav, over to you to respond.

Brian_7091946

Hi David,

As you suggest I think this is one for Rav to look into.

It doesn't make sense that for the same type of transactions in different portfolios can be accurately performed in one portfolio but not in another portfolio. Having "one legged entries" like this are concerning. Where is the other entry to balance things?

Rav

Hi folks,

I can't say I have a great deal of knowledge in this area so apologies if I come across a bit silly while I try to wrap my head around this. I will however reach out to some folks internally for further insight into this as well.

I do have a few questions though just to gather a bit more info around this so hopefully you can help me out with the below -

Is this a new occurrence? More specifically, has this process worked differently before ie. as you expect it to at some prior point in time?

Is this specific to your current file? If you open the Sample File or create a new test/dummy file, does the same behaviour occur?

Which version of the Reckon Personal software are you using that this is occurring on?

Also, while I'm going to link a help guide below, let me know if it doesn't address the behaviour in question.

https://help.reckon.com/article/aglq2ht9ff-kba-4540-realised-capital-gains-not-reporting-correctly

Thanks guys, looking forward to hearing from you.

David M

My experience has been as follows.

1 - This was the second time it has ever occurred, and both have been in the last five years. I am a thirty-year user of the software, and post at least one investment transaction per day over the year. However, I have not checked all my current investments to see if there are others that have not yet emerged, and will when I try and sell the last of those shares int at company.

2 - Given the infrequency with which it occurs, trying to recreate it is a futile exercise, in my opinion.

3 - I am using Personal Plus 2022.

4 - My guess is that when a purchase or sale of investment transaction is processed it is 'corrupted' and not stored in the database in the proper fashion. When it is the first purchase of shares in the company, the user will automatically delete the transaction and reenter the data until it works. Where it is an additional purchase of shares in an existing investment company, or a partial sale of the shares being held, the problem will carry forward, as in my two cases, until the last shares are sold.

5 - I have read the guide, and in my case the latest stock is Newcrest Mining, which I have owned since 1997, which according to my records, has never had a capital return. So, this note does not apply. I have had purchases and sales, transfers and dividends but no capital returns.

6 - We await your further advice.

David

Brian_7091946

Rav, my experience is as follows-

1- For me I believe this is a new experience as it's the first time I have come across the problem.

2-I have not tried to resolve the problem by opening a sample file or creating a new test as I am concerned that this may crate another problem I cannot control.

3-I am using Reckon Personal Plus 2022 .

The share involved is Woolworths, which is held in 2 different portfolio accounts. I have gone into the Investing area and downloaded a report for the Woolworths shares. This shows all transactions for Woolworths shares and the portfolio they are in. It also shows the corresponding account the entry has been posted to. The report shows-

For one of my Portfolios where there is not a problem.

1-When the sale is made and the shares can be allocated against lots in the portfolio the cost of the shares and the capital profit is clearly shown.

2-Therefore in this portfolio the debit and credit entries balance.

For the Portfolio where there is a problem and the shares cannot be allocated on sale.

1-All shares purchases are recorded, so the shares are available for sale.

2-If I change the date of the portfolio report to a date that includes the date of the share purchases but is before the date of the sale of those shares the report correctly records the Woolworths number of shares held and their cost. So the number of shares should therefore be in the "lots of" shares available to be picked up for sale.

3- When I go back to the report of all Woolworths transactions and look at the sale transaction (that specified not enough shares for sale) this shows that there is no cost involved. As a result the full amount of the sale price is credited against the cost of the portfolio. The system has picked up the sale price and taken it off the cost of the existing portfolio but not picked up any share quantity. In short it recognises the cost value but not the number of shares, so has allocated all the sale against cost. Therefore no CGT report for this transaction. Currently in one portfolio therefore my Woolworths shares show a negative cost value but a small number of shares, which are not registering in the shares available for sale. This creates another CGT report problem when these shares are sold.

Brian_7091946

Hi Rav,

Have you made any progress on this topic as it appears the double entry has not worked in this instance.

I have adjusted my ATO return for the error on the cost not being recorded. However this gives me a problem in the 2022/23 Capital Gains report.

When selling the remaining shares in Woolworths Capital gains for 2022/23 are incorrect, as the cost of the shares sold is negative due to the cost not being recorded on the previous sale.

Rav

Hi Brian

As above, can you please test the same process in the sample file and/or a dummy test file and confirm whether the same behaviour is consistent there and advise.

I have not tried to resolve the problem by opening a sample file or creating a new test as I am concerned that this may crate another problem I cannot control.

Note, a separate test file or the sample file are completely separate to your current/existing file that you're using.

Let me know how you get on.

Thanks

Brian_7091946

Hi Rav,

I have come back to this problem, after completing my tax for 2021. I am unsure why you want me to process in a sample file and/or dummy test. I do not have download details for the sample file so I have not gone into this exercise.

I also do not see how this solves the situation as the problem involves Reckon dropping off a number of shares and cost of shares at the time they are being picked up for allocating -

1 The basic problem is that in one of my portfolios accounts on 27/06/21 shares were bought in Woolworths and these shares at that date were recorded in The share account overview with Number of shares/Market value/Cost value/profit. At that time therefore both the cost of buying the shares and the number of shares bought were recorded.

2 At the time of the Sale 21/10/21 when I came to enter the sale of the shares and pick up the number of shares the register shows neither the the number of shares nor the value of the shares. However if I run the overview for the share portfolio this still shows the number of shares and the cost value. Why is it therefore that the reports do not agree?

3 If I enter the sale on 21/10/21 I cannot pick up any shares or costs so the full share proceeds are credited against the sale with the corresponding entry posted to the bank account. The double entry to clear out the cost of the share purchase seems to have been lost. As a result my Woolworths shares remaining now have a negative cost value.

4 There surely must be a simple audit check in the Reckon system to run to find where this missing cost has been posted. Normally this would be posted to a suspense account to be cleared. If not it raises doubts in my mind about other things being lost in the system as this is just simple double entry bookkeeping.

5 For another of my portfolio accounts for Woolworths I have similar transactions to those above, However all entries have been correctly recorded and there is no errors between the portfolio overview and the Woolworths share account.

I am wondering if this can be a problem connected to Woolworths/Endeavour merger and the Woolworths buy back that all happened around this time.

Brian_7091946

Hi Rav,

Further to above comment I have put the shares into a sample file for the same transactions. The sample file enables me to pick up the shares for sale and allocate them against lots in both portfolios. After allocation I have the correct profit on sale and the correct number, cost and shares left after the sale transaction for each portfolio account. I also have a correct CGT report.

As mentioned above for one of the portfolio accounts when selling shares the number is shown in the portfolio prior to sale with cost value, but when the sales transaction is being entered there are no shares to pick up. Both the cost and the number of shares are not there. How is that the number of shares and their cost have disappeared?

Brian_7091946

Hi Rav,

What is concerning me is that prior to the sale of shares posting everything is OK and in balance. How when the sale posting is performed the shares for sale in the register and their cost have disappeared. There appears to be no audit trail in the system showing where these shares and their cost have gone.

Can you please advise the next step to get this problem resolved?

Rav

Hi Brian

As I've previously said, I'm not an expert in this however I've spoken with a number of people internally in relation to your situation and we've performed testing as well to try and replicate what you're experiencing however there has been no success in doing so ie. from our checks it was working correctly.

We also performed multi buy and sell transactions which showed the correct information being recorded.

While this may not be ideal, a suggestion to try in order to determine which transaction may not be recording correctly is to refresh it by adding some additional info to the memo field and re-save it. This may not be practical in all cases as there may be multiple transactions to do this on.

The other potential cause is corruption in the file.

Jenny_10865121

Hi Brian and Rav,

I have been having this problem also for a while. Initially it was with only with one stock, and I would get the "You don't have enough shares to cover this sale" when I tried to allocate the sale of shares to a purchase. As you have said Brian, the shares are definitely in there somewhere and showing in every other way. Also I have noticed the Realised Gain has been incorrect on this stock, again not ideal for tax purposes.

I have just had it happen on two more stocks, so I went back into the Buy transactions and deleted them and then entered them again, until I found the one that seemed to fix the problem and I could enter my Sale transaction and allocate it appropriately. On my original stock there are just far too many transactions to manually delete and reenter.

Definitely seems to be a glitch in the Reckon system.

Has there been any more follow up on this problem?

Brian_7091946

Hi Jenny,

Apologies for late response. For me this only affected my shares held in Woolworths in one of my portfolio accounts. I had Woolworths shares held in another portfolio account and these were not affected when sold. The available shares were picked up on the sale. However on the portfolio that the shares could not be picked up on sale sometimes the number of shares would flicker as available but they could not be picked up on putting the sale transaction though. It just seemed as if there was a memory problem that could not pick up the shares.

I decided to delete all the remaining Woolworths shares from the Portfolio where they could not be picked up from on sale. This meant clearing out all the Woolworths shares in that Portfolio account. I opened a “clearing account” in Banks to transfer the value of the transaction into. This was necessary in order not to throw the bank accounts out for when the shares weeere originally bought. I used to use clearing accounts at work to track some things in the “old days”.

I then opened another portfolio account with the same name but called it No 2 account. The Woolworths shares that I had deleted from the original account I then input into this account with their original dates of purchase. The corresponding account I used as the “clearing account” to bring this account to zero.

For the shares that I sold I now used the Portfolio No 2 account to pick up the shares and put the bank sale proceeds into the bank account they were credited against. This time in Reckon I was able to pick up the shares sold from the register. After the transaction it then showed the correct number of shares left and their correct cost.

All double entry functions worked, whereas under the original portfolio, that did not pick up the shares for the sale, the cost of the shares got lost and the portfolio showed a negative value. In effect Reckon was not performing double entry book keeping, with no audit trail of where the entry was being posted.

The above corrected things for me and brought my accounts into balance. Hope this helps.

Jenny_10865121

Hi Brian,

Thank you so much for replying!

I think it is very slack that Reckon are not doing anything about these issues. However my accountant do there own calculations, so they aren't worried, and I have a separate app on my phone that keeps track of all my trades (Stocklight), so I guess I am putting it in the too hard basket and will just have to live with the anomalies on Reckon…until a better program comes along. 😕

Jenny

Brian_7091946

Hi Jenny

I agree that this is very slack on Reckon's part and they do not seem concerned about the problem and explain things as a “corrupt file”. As we have both checked our postings I am wondering if this problem has happened to a number of other users and they have simply not picked it up. It then sows a seed of doubt as to if there are other things going wrong elsewhere.

One entry of the double entry book keeping is missing. It has just disappeared and there is no audit trail picking up where it has gone, so are other transactions impacted. Therefore if you just post things and don't say “hey there is something wrong here” you get incorrect information in the Reckon Capital Gains report. This report is wrong as a basis for doing your CGT gains and losses for the ATO for your tax return.

As mentioned I did find my “work around” worked and recorded the double entry book keeping and the correct CGT report.

Brian